Millions of Americans lost their jobs because of the pandemic. While men have returned to their pre-pandemic level of employment, a million women are still missing from the workforce. Without access to paid maternity leave and affordable child care, women are choosing to stay home – or being forced to. It’s time for a more inclusive economic recovery. Reshma Saujani, the Founder of Girls Who Code and the Marshall Plan for Moms, has a plan to get us there.
The inequality of progress (with Oded Galor)
What can the history of human progress teach us about modern inequality? In his new book, ‘The Journey of Humanity: The Origins of Wealth and Inequality,’ economist Oded Galor explores that question, as well as why human progress was stagnant for so much of history, if growth is still possible without ruining the planet, and what this all means for our future.
How thinking like economists holds us back (with Elizabeth Popp Berman)
When it comes to crafting economic policy, cost-effectiveness, efficiency, choice, and competition have reigned supreme among policymakers for decades. Sociologist Elizabeth Popp Berman says that this style of economic reasoning—prioritizing efficiency above all else—makes good ideas seem like bad policy. She walks us through how that short-sighted style of thinking took hold in DC and explains when policymakers are right to lean on purely economic thinking—and when they should reject it in favor of prioritizing more fundamental values.
Exploring global solutions to inequality (with Faiza Shaheen)
Reducing inequality is not only possible, but it’s actually happening all across the globe. Faiza Shaheen, the Inequality Program Lead at NYU, has been researching the conditions and policies that can lower inequality for years. She shares which countries have successfully done so, and speculates about whether the United States has a shot at joining them.
Inclusion is an economic necessity (with john a. powell)
john a. powell, the Director of the Othering & Belonging Institute, explains why the concept of belonging is so important for a healthy community and why inclusion is the key to a thriving economy.
Consumers deserve an inflation rebate (with Congressman Ro Khanna)
Gas prices have reached record highs in the United States. Is inflation actually to blame, or is it the greed of Big Oil, which is enjoying record profits? Congressman Ro Khanna walks us through his proposal for a Big Oil Windfall Profits Tax, which he says will help curb profiteering while reducing gas prices.
How Biden’s budget proposal takes on corporate power (with Niko Lusiani)
The Biden Administration’s 2023 budget proposal includes a Billionaire Minimum Income Tax and a rewrite of stock buyback practices. Will these changes actually take effect? If so, will they do enough to curb runaway corporate power? Niko Lusiani from the Roosevelt Institute breaks down what’s inside Biden’s budget.
Pirate equity (with Jim Baker)
The idea behind private equity firms—to buy failing companies and turn them around for a profit—is not inherently bad. So why is private equity such a major driver of economic inequality? Jim Baker, the Executive Director for the Private Equity Stakeholder Project, explains these Wall Street pirates’ risky business practices and shows how workers are paying the price.
Companies can’t self-regulate their way to inclusive capitalism (with Katie Bach)
In 2019, a group of business leaders signed a high-profile pledge promising that they would voluntarily move toward a more inclusive stakeholder-focused version of capitalism. But throughout the pandemic, those same companies reported record profits while workers were left behind. Brookings Institute Senior Fellow Katie Bach walks us through her new report examining the pandemic labor practices of 22 companies, spanning nearly every sector, and employing more than 7 million frontline workers.
Why your non-compete clause is probably illegal (with Attorney General Bob Ferguson)
Non-compete clauses, and the lesser-known no-poach agreements between franchises, are shockingly common for low-wage workers. Although these contracts were originally intended to protect trade secrets among high-level executives, they have spiraled into an unfair labor practice that keeps wages low, limits employee mobility, and decreases competition. Washington state Attorney General Bob Ferguson explains how non-competes and no-poach agreements violate the law in many states, what his team did to get hundreds of huge employers across the country to cease and desist, and why you should tell your state’s Attorney General if you know of any low- or middle-income workers who are being forced into signing these agreements.
How neoliberalism happened (with George Monbiot and Binyamin Appelbaum)
It’s trendy to mock the malicious pervasiveness of neoliberalism now, but have you ever wondered what its origins are? This week, George Monbiot and Binyamin Appelbaum join the show to uncover just where the dominant economic theory of our time came from and how it took hold. This episode was originally recorded and released in October 2019.
The economics of mass incarceration (with Robynn Cox)
What role does the criminal justice system play in economic inequality? How does economic inequality cause mass incarceration? And how do we tease those two questions apart? Robynn Cox, an expert in the economics of mass incarceration, talks about her research uncovering the links between economic inequality and the criminal justice system.
Why a $15 minimum wage is no longer enough (with Dean Baker)
Ever wondered what the minimum wage would be if it had kept pace with inflation and productivity like it used to? Here’s a hint: $7.25, and even $15.00, don’t come close. Economist Dean Baker has been crunching the numbers on the minimum wage for years. He joins the podcast this week to share what he’s found and why it matters.
Did corporate greed break the supply chain? (with Rakeen Mabud)
While many Americans struggle to make ends meet, corporate America’s 2021 profits were higher than ever. So why are corporations making more money while supply chain issues are still driving up inflation for the rest of us? The Groundwork Collaborative’s Chief Economist, Rakeen Mabud, wants you to know that the supply chain is working exactly as it was designed: for maximum profit, rather than reliably getting goods to people. And that’s the problem.
Free lunch thinking (with Tom Bergin)
Investigative financial analyst Tom Bergin cut his teeth investigating corporate wrongdoing. When he turned his attention to the economics profession, he learned that eight major economic theories—used by experts to shape policy across the globe—entirely lack factual basis. He joins the pod to explain how those theories wormed their way into dominant economic thinking, the evidence against them, and why he believes economists are finally starting to shift toward studying the world as it actually is.
Congress looks to the CBO for economic expertise. Is that a mistake? (with Mark Paul)
The Congressional Budget Office, the institution that furnishes cost-benefit analyses for federal legislation under consideration by Congress, has a really hard job. But some of the assumptions they rely on to predict economic consequences are just plain weird. Economist Mark Paul leads us through the strangest practices at the CBO, including their (untrue) claim that public investment is only half as productive as private investment and the complete lack of peer-reviewing of reports that can signal the death knell for a bill.
How Davos Man devours the world (with Peter Goodman)
Billionaires have looted economies, hidden from tax bills, and destabilized democracies for decades. But the subset of billionaires who make a show of pretending to be good citizens have to be the worst among them. They’re called “Davos Man” and according to New York Times Global Economics Correspondent Peter Goodman, they’re devouring the world we live in.
The economics of abortion (with Caitlin Myers)
We often discuss abortion as an issue of bodily autonomy, personal rights, and reproductive justice. Of course it’s all of those things, but it’s also an economic issue. Access (or lack thereof) to an abortion profoundly affects women’s lives by determining if, when, and under what circumstances they become mothers. Whether or not women have access to abortion can change the direction of their lives, affecting educational attainment, labor force participation, and overall earnings. Economist Caitlin Myers breaks down her research into the subject and provides examples of the causal link between abortion access and economic outcomes in women’s lives.
Ask Nick Anything
Nick and Goldy answer your questions! How is any form of union busting legal? Why can’t America be more like the Nordic countries? Is taxing unrealized capital gains a good idea? And more!
Thanks to Brad from Pennsylvania, Larry from Boston, Julie from Arizona, Duncan from California, Zach from Minnesota, and Dave from Illinois who left the great voicemails included in this episode. If you have any questions for a future AMA episode, leave us a voicemail at 731-388-9334.
Debunking deficit myths (with Stephanie Kelton)
Modern Monetary Theory is an attempt to accurately describe how government debt and complex financial systems actually work and it can help us responsibly use our resources. No one is more knowledgeable on the subject than returning guest, Professor Stephanie Kelton. On this episode, originally released in 2020, Kelton explains the myths surrounding MMT and what a new understanding of the budget could do for our economy.
The economic case for universal health care (with CA Assemblymember Ash Kalra)
The United States spends far more on healthcare costs than other industrialized countries, yet we continue to have wider gaps of coverage and report worse health outcomes. California Assemblymember Ash Kalra is paving the way for a better system in his state through the California Guaranteed Health Care for All Act, which at the time of recording had been advancing through the state legislature for nearly a year. The night before this episode posted, the Bill died in the Assembly — but Assemblymember Kalra’s thoughts on how a state-based single payer system would work, the hurdles it faces, and how such a program could become the blueprint for national health care reform can still inspire future lawmakers and activists to find new paths forward for health care in America.
Why privatizing public goods is bad for democracy (with Donald Cohen)
Even in the middle of a pandemic, trickle-down politicians still love to claim that the free market is the best way to resolve human problems and that the government can’t be trusted to serve the public good. But when we privatize public health, utilities, and other shared necessities, we hand over control of those public goods—the things that we all need and that we need everyone to have— to for-profit entities that don’t answer to the public. Donald Cohen, an expert on privatization, shares examples and talks about the consequences of privatization in America.
Ending the tipped minimum wage (with Saru Jayaraman)
In most states, tipped workers are not subject to the minimum wage. Why? Because it’s legal to pay tipped workers a subminimum wage as low as the federal minimum of $2.13 per hour. As long as any worker in the country can be paid less than the minimum wage, the minimum wage is meaningless. Saru Jayaraman, a leader in the national fight for one fair wage, lays out the path forward.
Did the Federal Reserve’s policies make inequality worse? (with Christopher Leonard)
When the Federal Reserve makes money, where does it go? Turns out, the Fed’s hands are tied—it can’t do anything other than assume that the new money will trickle down into the hands of ordinary Americans through Wall Street’s coffers. And according to journalist Christopher Leonard, that’s put the United States’ economic stability at risk and accelerated income inequality.
How the radical right weaponized ideology (with Nancy MacLean)
If it seems to you like the ultimate goal of the most extreme conservatives is to undermine democracy and cripple democratic institutions—well, according to historian Nancy MacLean, you’re right. This week, MacLean unpacks the meteoric rise in popularity of the radical right’s ideas, and offers a way forward for progressives, based on lessons from successful social movements throughout American history. This episode was originally released in July 2020.
How opportunity zones create windfalls for the uber-rich (with David Wessel)
The 2017 Tax Cuts & Jobs Act included a little-known provision establishing something called opportunity zones. The plan, which was lauded as a way to direct investments into under-developed communities in the U.S., created 8,764 tax havens that were almost immediately exploited by the wealthy to gobble up capital gains tax breaks. Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist David Wessel explains how opportunity zones came to be, who is profiting off of them, and why it’s so difficult to tweak the tax code without creating windfalls for the rich.
Are you in the 9.9 percent? (with Matthew Stewart)
In the U.S., inequality is often framed as the 99% versus the wealthiest 1%. But that’s not quite the right matchup. While the bottom 90% has done dramatically worse over the last several decades and the top 0.1% has done dramatically better, the 9.9% in between those groups still controls more than half of the wealth in the United States. Author and philosopher Matthew Stewart thinks that the 9.9% are not innocent bystanders, and he joins Nick and Goldy to discuss how this group is entrenching inequality and warping our culture.
Moving beyond racial liberalism (with Kyle Strickland)
How can we center the role of race in our economic policy and in our politics in a way that will drive real change? Kyle Strickland, the deputy director of race and democracy at the Roosevelt Institute, explains how our leaders have fallen under the sway of racial liberalism, which focuses solely on disavowing personal bigotry and overt discrimination. In order to realize true racial and economic justice, he argues we should move beyond racial liberalism and toward a greater understanding of the systemic injustices built into our political and economic systems.
The hidden costs of banking while poor (with Mehrsa Baradaran and Cate Blackford)
The average family earning $25,000 a year in the U.S. spends about $2,400 on financial transactions. Whether it’s the astronomical interest rates of a payday loan or the costs that come with being unbanked, the extractive practices of the financial services industry are effectively keeping the poor in poverty. Lawyer and author Mehrsa Baradaran and economic mobility expert Cate Blackford join Nick and Steph this week to explain why banking while poor is so expensive, and what states can do to rein in the people who profit from it. This episode was originally released in February 2020.
Make the clean stuff cheap (with Eric Beinhocker and Doyne Farmer)
Until very recently, the prevailing wisdom cautioned that transitioning to a clean energy economy would be extremely expensive, and therefore only possible if undertaken slowly. New research upends that thinking—when it comes to going green, the faster we go, the cheaper it will be. University of Oxford professors Eric Beinhocker and Doyne Farmer talk with Nick about a new strategy for clean technology that could transform the climate fight.
Why can’t we talk about homelessness? (with Josephine Ensign)
The number of unhoused Americans is at a historically high rate right now. This podcast is produced in Seattle, a city with the third highest homeless population in the U.S. Though many Seattleites identify as progressive, we can’t reach a consensus on how to help our most vulnerable populations—or even find agreement on the root causes of the housing crisis. Why are perspectives on homelessness, and possible solutions to it, so polarized? Josephine Ensign, a University of Washington nurse and health care provider for people experiencing homelessness, shares some of her insights from her career on the frontlines of this crisis.
How taxpayers subsidize corporate profits (with Rana Foroohar and David Dayen)
Every company you can think of has benefitted from a public investment. Whether it’s direct handouts through the tax code, government research efforts, or employee reliance on programs like EITC or TANF, taxpayers are subsidizing wildly profitable companies. David Dayen, the executive editor of The American Prospect, and Financial Times associate editor Rana Foroohar join Nick and Zach to explain how we let corporate parasites get so out of control—and what we can do about it. This episode was originally recorded and released in January 2020.
How the tax system impoverishes Black Americans (with Dorothy A. Brown)
We know that the tax system is set up to advantage people with money. And we know that in the U.S., people with money are disproportionately white. But what many people don’t realize is that the tax system actively advantages white families. Tax law professor Dorothy Brown explains how racial inequality is baked into tax policy in non-obvious ways, and how that affects wealth-building.
The free market economics of synthetic opioids (with Sam Quinones)
The opioid crisis in the United States is a textbook example of free market economics. The powerful lie, manipulate, and skirt regulations to make buckets of money, while innocent people suffer. Journalist Sam Quinones joins Goldy and Paul to unpack the economics behind the opioid crisis, and the new threat of synthetic opioids like fentanyl.
How to stand up for voting rights (with Andrea Hailey)
Behind every aspect of the voting system that makes it harder to vote, there’s a policy that made it that way. Andrea Hailey, the CEO of Vote.org, joins Nick and Goldy to explain how voter suppression happens, and what reforms would help ensure a truly inclusive democracy.
Thanks to unemployment insurance, poverty declined last year (with Amy Goldstein and Elliott Morris)
It’s been a little over a month since the unemployment benefits programs that were established by the CARES Act expired, so we’re taking a look at how well they worked. Washington Post writer Amy Goldstein and Elliott Morris, a data journalist at The Economist, deliver the facts to Jessyn and Paul.
How corporate concentration hurts the economy (with Stacy Mitchell)
Anti-monopoly and pro-local advocate Stacy Mitchell joins the show to talk about small business, big business, and decentralizing economic power.
Stacy Mitchell is the co-director of the Institute for Local Self-Reliance. She directs ILSR’s Independent Business Initiative, which produces research and analysis and partners with a broad range of allies to design and implement policies to reverse corporate concentration and strengthen local enterprise.
Why philanthropy isn’t the answer (with Anand Giridharadas)
Few books have shaken the philanthropy world more than ‘Winners Take All’, Anand Giridharadas’s blistering critique of wealthy do-gooders. Global elites who ostentatiously give away hundreds of millions of dollars, he argues, are actually just preserving the status quo that grants them power in the first place. On this episode, originally recorded and released in October 2019, Anand joins Nick and Goldy to explain how do-gooding can perpetuate inequality.
Redefining skill (with Nichola Lowe)
Who are the winners and losers in our skill development system? How can we move the onus of skill further into the purview of employers and away from our education system? UNC Professor Nichola Lowe talks to Goldy about the future of “skill” as we know it in the economy, and what’s at stake if we get it wrong.
Capitalism is working better in Finland (with Anu Partanen and Trevor Corson)
Contrary to popular belief, Nordic countries aren’t actually socialist! No, friends, the Nords are capitalists—but they pull it off much better than we do. To help re-imagine American capitalism, writers Anu Partanen and Trevor Corson join us this week all the way from Finland. This episode was originally recorded and posted in February 2020.
Right-to-work is bad for workers (with Shane Larson)
Right-to-work laws, which make unionizing more difficult in 28 states, could more accurately be referred to as right-to-work… for less. Why? On average, worker pay drops 3.1% when right-to-work laws are passed. Shane Larson from CWA, the largest communications and media labor union in the U.S., joins Goldy to explain why right-to-work laws are so harmful, how they came to be, and why it’s so important to pass the PRO Act to fight for workers’ rights.
How neoliberalism captured Democrats (with James Kwak)
Democrats used to be known as the party of the working people—so how did they get so off track? Who took over the party, and why? Author and professor James Kwak joins Nick and Paul in a blistering analysis of the decline of the Democratic Party, and explains how we can get it back on track. This episode originally aired in January 2020.
Why restaurants can’t find workers (with restaurateur Mark Bucher)
DC restaurateur Mark Bucher explains what’s behind the “labor” shortage (hint: it’s the wages), the role that restaurant owners need to play in stopping the “churn and burn” model of low-wage workers, and the future of the restaurant industry post-Covid.
Mark Bucher is the co-owner of Medium Rare, a decade-old steakhouse with three locations in D.C., Arlington, and Bethesda. During the pandemic, he established “Feed the Fridge”, a project that places refrigerators around the DC metro area and pays local restaurants to fill them with fresh meals daily
What convinces people to act in the interest of others? (with Margaret Levi)
What does it take for someone to act in the interest of others? What constitutes trust in general, and trust in government in particular? Margaret Levi, a professor of political and behavioral sciences, shares her research on how people can be persuaded to act in the interest of others if they don’t already want to. The conversation covers vaccines, unions, citizen confidence in government, and a lot more.
How Covid shook the world’s economy (with Adam Tooze)
There have been far more lethal pandemics than Covid-19, but the scale of our response to Covid-19 is dramatically new. For the first time in human history, our civilization made a collective decision to shut much of the world economy down. Contemporary historian Adam Tooze helps us understand what happened, why it happened, and how we can learn from it.
Why is getting out of poverty so hard? (with Felicia Wong)
Roosevelt Institute President Felicia Wong and writer Hanna Brooks Olsen join Nick and Goldy to explore how the intense burdens of poverty make it nearly impossible to even think about climbing the economic ladder. This episode was originally recorded and released in 2019.
Why is the child tax credit good economic policy? (with Wendy Bach)
Everything you need to know about what the expanded child tax credit actually is, why it’s good policy, and how it will impact people’s lives.
Wendy Bach is a Professor of Law at the University of Tennessee, Knoxville. She is a nationally recognized expert in poverty law.
How the credit market drives up housing prices (with Redfin CEO Glenn Kelman)
What’s the next generation of access to credit? Why are home prices and rents so out-of-whack with each other? And how can we approach the discord between what liberals say they want for their community versus what housing and development policies they’ll actually support? Glenn Kelman, the CEO of real estate brokerage website Redfin, helps us examine the future of housing and the best ways that companies like his can contribute to solving the housing crisis.
And if you’re wondering why this episode sounds so good, or why nobody mentions the pandemic… it’s because this conversation is from our archives of interviews that we recorded in-studio, just before the pandemic hit. But don’t let that discourage you—this is still just as relevant today as the day it was recorded. Enjoy!
Ask Nick Anything, continued!
Is inflation bad? What’s the difference between a neoliberal and a conservative? If large corporations were held to higher labor standards than small employers, wouldn’t Walmart get all the talent? And more.
Thanks to Mark from Nashville, David from Japan, Mike from Dallas-Fort Worth, Mary from Pennsylvania, Steve from Austin, and Pete from Boston, who left the great voicemails included in this episode! If you have any questions for a future AMA episode, leave us a voicemail at 731-388-9334.
Everything you need to know about the Frito-Lay Strike (with KS Rep Jason Probst)
Workers at a Frito-Lay factory in Topeka, Kansas made national headlines when they went on strike to protest dismal labor conditions including forced overtime and 84-hour workweeks. (Frito-Lay’s parent company, PepsiCo, made $10.5 billion in profit last year.) The strike ended after 19 days on July 26th, but it’s an important part of a national conversation about labor and corporate profits. Kansas state Representative Jason Probst joins the show to explain the details of the strike and how these insidious labor practices affect his state’s economy.
Ask Nick Anything
Nick and Goldy answer your questions! If we had progressive taxation, would we still need means testing? Can we send ultra-rich people away to their own economy? What are the best economic indicators for the progressive economy? And more!
Thanks to Lisa from Indianapolis, Rick from Baltimore, Jacob from Portland, Sean from Philadelphia, Linda from Seaside, and Frank from Georgia who left the great voicemails included in this episode! If you have any questions for a future AMA episode, leave us a voicemail at 731-388-9334.
Fiscal policy can help save the environment (with Sarah Bloom Raskin)
Can we create transformative climate outcomes by adopting new regulatory strategies? Financial regulation expert Sarah Bloom Raskin helps us explore what levers exist to steer fiscal and monetary policy toward lasting sustainability.
Sarah Bloom Raskin is the former Deputy Secretary of the U.S. Department of the Treasury and a former Governor of the Federal Reserve Board. She served as the Commissioner of Financial Regulation for the State of Maryland from 2007 to 2010. She is currently a visiting professor and distinguished fellow at Duke Law School’s Global Financial Markets Center, and a member of President Biden’s Regenerative Crisis Response Committee, which recommends changes in fiscal, monetary, and financial regulatory policies that are likely to enable the U.S. to achieve net carbon neutrality before 2050.
Why billionaires are paying no taxes (LIVE from CAP)
Our friends at the Center for American Progress put on a great virtual event last week with Senator Sherrod Brown, discussing how the U.S. tax codes favors the wealthy and the tools Congress plans to use to rebalance the tax system.
We all do better when we all do better (with JP Julien)
Contrary to fears that economic inclusion must come at the expense of economic growth, global management consulting firm McKinsey & Company’s research and empirical evidence supports the idea that economic growth is at its best when it is most inclusive – but that equity needs to be embedded in systems from the start in order to be effective. What does ‘inclusion’ mean in the context of an economy that works for everyone? McKinsey’s JP Julien explains how policymakers and companies can ensure that economic growth goes hand-in-hand with – and is enhanced by – reducing inequality.
JP Julien is an Associate Partner at McKinsey & Company, where he serves US federal, state, and city governments on inclusive economic-development topics and supports private-, public-, and social-sector organizations in advancing racial equity. He is a leader of the McKinsey Institute for Black Economic Mobility, a global economic think tank focused on inclusive economic development and racial equity topics.
Summer Reading List!
It’s Nick and Goldy’s summer reading list! We want to know what you’re reading, too. Let us know on Instagram: @pitchforkeconomics.
Remember to shop local and small when you can, or order from IndieBound or Bookshop.org—both of which support independent bookstores! All of these books are also likely available at your library.
Post-pandemic booms (with Callum Williams)
Callum Williams from The Economist predicts what we can expect from the economy in the coming months based on past periods of massive non-financial disruption, including past pandemics and major world wars.
Callum Williams is a senior economics writer at The Economist.
Chipotle CEO Brian Niccol is a trickle-down clown
You probably saw the news that Chipotle is raising its menu prices by 4 percent, and that leadership is blaming the price increase on the fact that they had to raise their starting pay to $15 per hour. It’s not at all surprising to see a large employer like Chipotle blame rising wages for everything, but what was disappointing was the media’s willingness to repeat Chipotle’s story without looking deeper into the numbers: namely, none of the stories covering the price increases mentioned that Chipotle gave its CEO a $24 million raise last year, and that the company is in the middle of enacting a $153 million stock buyback program to enrich a handful of shareholders. Around here, that type of trick will land you the title of Trickle-Down Clown! This week Goldy has a few choice words to say about Chipotle’s behavior, and then we thought it would be a good time to revisit our stock buybacks episode with Senator Cory Booker for an explanation of the pervasiveness and dangers of the practice.
Inequality is bad for everyone (with Djaffar Shalchi)
We’re back to our favorite topic this week—TAX THE RICH! Beyond all the benefits that come from a well-funded social safety net, taxing the wealthy would lessen inequality, which would make most people—including the extravagantly wealthy—happier. Super-rich Danish entrepreneur Djaffar Shalchi shares the wisdom that Denmark understands: Inequality is bad for everyone.
Djaffar Shalchi is an entrepreneur from Denmark and founder of Millionaires for Humanity, a network of wealthy people who advocate for raising taxes on wealthy people. He is also the founder and Executive Director of Move Humanity, a global initiative to mobilize at least one percent of the wealth of the world’s super-rich for the UN’s Sustainable Development Goals.
How U.S. policy was designed to suppress wages (with Larry Mishel and Josh Bivens)
Radical and rising economic inequality is no secret — and now, thanks to new research from the Economic Policy Institute, neither is its price tag nor its cause. There’s never been a study quite like this — one which places specific, real dollar amounts on every trickle-down policy American politicians have embraced. The study’s authors, Larry Mishel and Josh Bivens, explain how their work reveals that the massive upward redistribution of income our nation has suffered these past four decades can largely be attributed to policies intentionally designed to suppress the wages of American workers.
Lawrence Mishel is a distinguished fellow at EPI after serving as president from 2002-2017. In the more than three decades he has been with EPI, Mishel has helped build it into the nation’s premier research organization focused on U.S. living standards and labor markets.
It’s not a labor shortage, it’s a wage shortage (with Heidi Shierholz)
You have no doubt seen the scary headlines warning of a “labor shortage” caused by the additional pandemic unemployment insurance payments. The coverage of this story is widespread, even though most economics reporters can find no credible evidence linking unemployment checks to a labor shortage. EPI economist Heidi Shierholz joins us to explain why UI and stimulus payments aren’t causing a “labor shortage”, and why the answer to this made-up problem is so clear: it’s the low wages, stupid.
Heidi Shierholz is the Senior Economist and Director of Policy at the Economic Policy Institute.
Your non-compete clause is probably illegal (with WA Attorney General Bob Ferguson)
Non-compete clauses, and the lesser-known no-poach agreements between franchises, are shockingly common for low-wage workers. Although these contracts were originally intended to protect trade secrets among high-level executives, they have spiralled into an unfair labor practice that keeps wages low, limits employee mobility, and decreases competition. Washington state Attorney General Bob Ferguson explains how non-competes and no-poach agreements violate the law in many states, what his team did to get hundreds of huge employers across the country to cease and desist, and why you should tell your state’s Attorney General if you know of any low- or middle-income workers who are being forced into signing these agreements.
Bob Ferguson is Washington State’s 18th Attorney General. As the state’s chief legal officer, Bob is committed to protecting the people of Washington against powerful interests that don’t play by the rules.
Why we need a mission-driven economy (with Mariana Mazzucato)
What do the internet and COVID vaccines have in common? Neither would be possible without the work of DARPA, a mission-focused federal agency responsible for funding research and development. Professor Mariana Mazzucato is with us this week to argue that our economy will be better off if more government agencies adopt DARPA’s mission-oriented approach.
Mariana Mazzucato is a Professor in the Economics of Innovation and Public Value at University College London, where she is Founding Director of the UCL Institute for Innovation and Public Purpose. She is the author of three highly-acclaimed books: The Entrepreneurial State, The Value of Everything, and Mission Economy.
Is the economy at a turning point? (with Anusar Farooqui)
Essayist Anusar Farooqui makes the case that we are witnessing the final break from neoliberalism in the United States.
Anusar Farooqui writes on Substack as Policy Tensor.
Can businesses help repair society? (with Ben & Jerry)
Can business leaders use their power and resources to make meaningful change? Should they? Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield, the founders behind iconic ice cream brand Ben & Jerry’s, help map the landscape between business and activism and introduce their new project, the Campaign to End Qualified Immunity.
Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield are the co-founders of Ben & Jerry’s Ice Cream. Most recently, they are the leaders of the Campaign to End Qualified Immunity, a new police reform and criminal justice campaign.
There’s no such thing as a race-neutral policy (with Valerie Wilson)
EPI economist Valerie Wilson joins us for a conversation about the economic costs of racism, and which policies could help further racial equality.
Valerie Wilson is the Director of the Program on Race, Ethnicity, and the Economy at the Economic Policy Institute. Prior to joining EPI, she was an economist and vice president of research at the National Urban League Washington Bureau.
Diving into March’s giant jobs report (with Austan Goolsbee)
The latest monthly report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics showed massive gains in March—the strongest in seven months—indicating that economic growth is gaining speed. Economist Austan Goolsbee explains why he’s optimistic, what kind of numbers we need to keep seeing to realize a full recovery, and how the report proves that even though some think high unemployment insurance payments will disincentivize people from returning to work, a lack of jobs is actually what’s driving unemployment rates.
Austan Goolsbee is the Robert P. Gwinn Professor of Economics at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business. He previously served as the Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers and a member of President Obama’s Cabinet.
Winning back our freedom from the market (with Mike Konczal)
The relationship between time, work, and freedom has always been a battleground in the American economy. Could our devotion to free-market fundamentalism in fact be making Americans less free? Author Mike Konczal joins the show to talk about positive versus negative freedom and the policies that would make us more free, in a real sense.
Mike Konczal is the Director of Progressive Thought at the Roosevelt Institute. His latest book is Freedom from the Market: America’s Fight to Liberate Itself from the Grip of the Invisible Hand.
Andrew Yang interviews Nick!
On his podcast Yang Speaks, former Democratic presidential candidate Andrew Yang asks Nick about pervasive economic myths, the next big labor standards fight (the overtime threshold), and the early days of the Fight for $15. Plus, they debate whether a higher minimum wage or a universal basic income would be better for society.
Atlas Hugged (with David Sloan Wilson)
If you’re one of the many people who have asked us to take down the concepts in Atlas Shrugged, which argues that we’re a fundamentally selfish species, this episode is for you! If you’re not one of those people, well, this episode is ALSO for you! Evolutionary biologist David Sloan Wilson has infused the idea of prosociality (the desire to help others) into his new book, Atlas Hugged, and he joins us to explain why Atlas Hugged is a better predictor of how people act than Atlas Shrugged.
David Sloan Wilson is an evolutionary biologist and SUNY Distinguished Professor of Biology and Anthropology at Binghamton University. His books include This View of Life: Completing the Darwinian Revolution and the recently published Atlas Hugged.
Can’t stop, won’t stop, GameStop (with Congressman Ro Khanna)
When GameStop’s stock skyrocketed early this year, Wall Street was pissed. A group of Redditors had manipulated the stock market—and everyone knows only professional hedge fund managers are allowed to do that! We couldn’t ignore the market news that took the world by storm, so Nick and Goldy called up CA Congressman Ro Khanna to talk about what happened with GameStop, what it means for financial regulations, and what the government’s response signals about a changing tide in our country’s leadership.
Congressman Ro Khanna is a Representative of California’s 17th District. Rep. Khanna sits on the House Committees on Agriculture, Armed Services, and Oversight and Reform. He is the Deputy Whip of the Congressional Progressive Caucus; serves as an Assistant Whip for the Democratic Caucus and is the Democratic Vice Chair of the House Caucus on India and Indian Americans.
No, the relief bill won’t cause inflation (with Austan Goolsbee)
This weekend, the Senate passed the coronavirus relief bill—and the House is scheduled to debate the bill, and widely expected to pass it, on the day this episode is published (Tuesday, March 9th). While the Senate debated what would be the largest disaster-relief legislation in American history, moderate Democrats and ultra-conservative Republicans alike repeated one common criticism—that infusing so much money into the economy would cause inflation. Austan Goolsbee, past Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers, explains why those fears are misplaced in this episode that will answer every question you’ve ever had about inflation, stimulus checks, and disaster relief.
Austan Goolsbee is the Robert P. Gwinn Professor of Economics at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business. He previously served in Washington as the Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers and a member of President Obama’s Cabinet.
The idea for a National Investment Authority, explained (with Saule Omarova)
Tackling existential threats to our future like climate change and economic inequality is a huge undertaking, and building the future is going to require massive public investment. Cornell Law Professor Saule Omarova calls for a National Investment Authority that would work inside private markets as a soup-to-nuts problem-solving operation.
Saule Omarova is the Beth and Marc Goldberg Professor of Law at Cornell Law School. She specializes in financial sector regulation, banking law, international finance, and corporate finance.
The velocity of money (with Ann Pettifor)
Over the last century, the velocity of money—the rate at which money changes hands through the economy—has declined. Today, money moves at one of the slowest rates on record, meaning every dollar today generates 70% less economic activity than a dollar did just ten years ago. That has big implications for our economy. Political economist Ann Pettifor joins Nick and Goldy to explain how the velocity of money is related to money creation, and why taxing the rich is ultimately pro-growth (it’s all related, we promise!).
Ann Pettifor is a political economist, author, and public speaker, and the Director of PRIME (Policy Research in Macroeconomics). Her work focuses on the global financial system, sovereign debt restructuring, international finance, and sustainable development. She is the author of many books, including The Production of Money and The Case for the Green New Deal.
Re-post: Does the market pay you what you’re worth? (with Marshall Steinbaum and Saru Jayaraman)
The theory of marginal product of labor says that every worker is paid exactly what they’re worth—the value that their labor generates. Employers cite marginal productivity to legitimize paying the lowest wages possible, but that’s just another trickle-down scam. Economist Marshall Steinbaum and food labor expert Saru Jayaraman expose the lie of marginal productivity, and show how it’s been used to exploit workers for centuries.
Marshall Steinbaum is an Assistant Professor of Economics at the University of Utah and a Senior Fellow of Higher Education Finance at the Jain Family Institute. He studies market power in labor markets and its policy implications.
What’s the deal with the CBO report?
The big news in the minimum wage world this week is the brand new CBO report—which, among many benefits, also found that a $15 federal minimum wage would cost jobs, increase the deficit, and raise prices. How can that be, when most modern minimum wage studies suggest the opposite? Goldy and Paul explain how CBO arrived at their numbers.
Ask Nick Anything
You know the drill: Nick and Goldy answer your questions! Did we see ‘pitchforks’ at the Capitol insurrection? What should people who subscribe to the economic theories we talk about in this podcast call themselves? What are the smartest investments the average person can make for a stronger, more prosperous, more democratic America? And more!
Repost: How to spot a bogus minimum wage study (with Ben Zipperer)
Here’s another resource from the archive that will help you wade through the loud and often misleading coverage of the Raise the Wage Act.
Not all minimum-wage studies are equal. Some of the most headline-grabbing negative reports on the effects of the minimum wage were commissioned and promoted by right-wing organizations looking to legitimize trickle-down policies that hurt workers. How can you spot studies that aren’t worth their salt? Economist Ben Zipperer joins Nick and Jasmin to reveal some of the tricks that economists pull, and to help us understand how some studies can conclude that raising wages will kill jobs—even though, as we know, the opposite is true.
Do wealthy Americans have too much power? (with Thom Hartmann)
Is the U.S. an oligarchy, or does it just have a bunch of super-rich people living in it? Is there a difference? Author Thom Hartmann joins Nick and Paul to explain the relationship between wealth and American political power and share some of the research that went into his latest book, ‘The Hidden History of American Oligarchy.’
Repost: Why raising the minimum wage doesn’t raise unemployment (with Mayor Eric Garcetti and Alan Krueger)
You may have noticed that the trickle-downers are out in full force again spouting bad ideas in response to the Raise the Wage Act, which will raise the federal minimum wage to $15/hour. To set the record straight, we’re reposting one of our first-ever episodes, from early 2019, that reveals what the research proves (no, raising the minimum wage doesn’t affect employment), and asks why changing public perception around the minimum wage has been so difficult.
Eric Garcetti is the Mayor of LA, where he signed a $15 minimum wage ordinance into law in 2015.
The late Alan Krueger was a leading labor economist best known for his work on the effects of the minimum wage.
How can Democrats win back rural America? (with Bill Hogseth)
Democrats used to win elections in rural areas, but that seems like a distant memory now. This week, Zach is joined by Bill Hogseth, a political organizer from rural Wisconsin, to talk about the difference between making promises and delivering change—and how Democrats can win rural America back again.
Bill Hogseth is a political organizer from rural Wisconsin, where he works for the Wisconsin Farmers Union. He is the former Chair of the Dunn County Democrats.
The sounds of the new administration
Celebrate the end of inauguration week with this compilation of fun soundbites from past guests who are now serving in the Biden Administration!
The economic challenges Biden faces (with Idrees Kahloon)
Idrees Kahloon from The Economist joins us for inauguration week to assess the daunting economic challenges that the Biden-Harris administration will face the second they take office.
Idrees Kahloon is the Washington correspondent for The Economist. He covers US policy, poverty, and COVID-19 stimulus packages.
The case for a True New Deal (with Bharat Ramamurti)
In a recent report, The Roosevelt Institute called for a new set of policies to mitigate the economic suffering caused by the pandemic. Taken all together, these policies are as sweeping as the New Deal was—but unlike the New Deal, they’re truly representative of America’s race, class, and gender diversity. Attorney Bharat Ramamurti, the incoming Deputy Director of the Biden administration’s National Economic Council and a co-author of the report, joins Nick and Jessyn to make the case for a True New Deal.
Bharat Ramamurti is the incoming Deputy Director of the National Economic Council. At the time of our interview, he was the managing director of the Corporate Power Program at the Roosevelt Institute and a member of the COVID-19 Congressional Oversight Commission. He was previously an economic advisor to Senator Elizabeth Warren.
How banking deregulation makes you unsafe (with Anat Admati)
No matter what some politicians may claim, there’s actually no such thing as ‘less regulation’ — there are only regulations that favor the powerful, and those that don’t. Stanford economist Anat Admati walks us through the deregulation of the banking industry and explains how she would overhaul financial regulations to make them work well for society, not just for the rich and powerful.
Anat Admati is the George G.C. Parker Professor of Finance and Economics at Stanford University Graduate School of Business, a director of the Corporations and Society Initiative, and a senior fellow at Stanford Institute for Economic Policy Research. She has written extensively on information dissemination in financial markets, portfolio management, financial contracting, corporate governance, and banking. She is the co-author of ‘The Bankers’ New Clothes: What’s Wrong with Banking and What to Do About It’.
Tax me more, I’m rich (with Abigail Disney and Chye-Ching Huang)
Trickle-down economics would have you believe that the rich are job creators. For decades we’ve been told that the more money the wealthy have to invest in creating jobs, the better the economy will be for everybody. This lie has had catastrophic effects: the top 0.1% of Americans now own more wealth than the bottom 90% of Americans combined. As debates rage among our leaders over stimulus bills and Americans battle their way through this economic crisis, the case for taxing the wealthy has never been as strong as it is now—so this week we’re re-surfacing this episode, originally published in 2019. Class traitor Abigail Disney and tax expert Chye-Ching Huang make the case for taxing the rich.
Why should we cancel student debt? (with Fenaba Addo)
The CARES Act delayed student loan payments as a form of stimulus, raising an important question: if forgiving student loan debt is good policy and broadly popular with Americans, should we just cancel student debt altogether? University of Wisconsin Madison Associate Professor Fenaba Addo, who researches debt and wealth inequality, helps us explore the merits and shortcomings of student debt cancellation.
Fenaba Addo is the Lorna Jorgensen Wendt Associate Professor of Money, Relationships, and Equality at the University of Wisconsin Madison. Her research examines the role of debt and increasing wealth inequality over the past forty years within communities of color and among economically vulnerable populations in the U.S.
Why conventional wisdom is finally pushing for higher wages (with Binyamin Appelbaum)
Six years after the beginning of the Fight for $15 movement, conventional wisdom is finally waking up to economic reality. How do we know? Because the New York Times recently published an editorial titled ‘Let’s Talk About Higher Wages’ calling on the incoming Biden administration to focus on higher wages for everyone. They couldn’t be more right on. Binyamin Appelbaum, the lead writer on business and economics for the Editorial Board, helps us understand the change in consensus on wages.
Binyamin Appelbaum is the lead writer on business and economics for the Editorial Board of The New York Times. From 2010 to 2019, he was a Washington correspondent for the Times, covering economic policy. His book, ‘The Economists’ Hour: False Prophets, Free Markets, and the Fracture of Society’ is a Wall Street Journal Business Bestseller.
Author Interview: Competition is Killing Us (with Michelle Meagher)
Neoliberal economics says free trade is always good, and its followers try to lower trade barriers without discretion. Freedom is an essential ingredient for successful international trade—but that doesn’t mean all trade should be unregulated. Competition law expert Michelle Meagher joins Goldy to debunk common competition myths and talk about strategies to hold powerful monopolies accountable.
Michelle Meagher is a Senior Policy Fellow at the University College London Centre for Law, Economics, and Society, and co-founder of the Inclusive Competition Forum, a think tank focused on democratizing corporate power and the enforcement of competition law.
Restoring conservative economics (with Oren Cass)
“Conservative economics” in the U.S. has become synonymous with libertarian principles. But that’s not what American conservatism was originally about. Oren Cass, the executive director of a new think tank called American Compass, is on a mission to restore conservative economics to its roots in family, community, and industry—and he joins Nick and Goldy to find common ground.
Oren Cass is the executive director of American Compass, whose mission is to restore an economic orthodoxy that emphasizes the importance of faith, community, and industry to the nation’s liberty and prosperity. He is the author of ‘The Once and Future Worker: A Vision for the Renewal of Work in America’.
What would you do if you were benevolent dictator?
We’re continuing to celebrate our 100th episode this week with another compilation — the best of the benevolent dictator question. What would you do to fix the world’s most intractable problems if you had no restraints? Our guests from over the last two years weigh in.
Why do you do this work?
It’s our 100th episode! To celebrate, we pulled together some of our favorite answers to the question we love to ask our guests: Why do you do this work? Plus, Nick answers the question too. We’re thankful this week for the thoughts shared by these inspiring people, and for YOU — thanks for listening to the show. We’re excited for the next 100.
What happens when unemployment benefits run out? (with Ioana Marinescu)
Right now, 26.3 million workers are either on unemployment or waiting to be approved for unemployment benefits. But for many of these jobless workers, the clock is running out on their eligibility to receive unemployment — and with no stimulus bill in sight, we could be entering a grim new phase of this recession. What will happen to the economy when unemployment insurance runs out? What will happen to the people who rely on those benefits? Economist Ioana Marinescu helps Nick and Goldy understand what the near-future of unemployment benefits looks like in the U.S.
Ioana Marinescu is an assistant professor at the University of Pennsylvania School of Social Policy & Practice, and a Faculty Research Fellow at the National Bureau of Economic Research. She studies the labor market to craft policies that can enhance employment, productivity, and economic security.
Who is Ron Klain?
In the first major staffing announcement of his incoming administration, President-elect Biden named Ron Klain, Obama’s ebola czar, as his chief of staff. We had a great conversation with Klain back in April, in which he argued that leadership failure and government unpreparedness made the pandemic much worse in the U.S. Now’s a great time to refresh yourself on this episode if you’re wondering how the Biden-Harris administration will respond to the coronavirus and approach wide-spread economic recovery.
The case for a millionaires tax (with Governor Phil Murphy)
This September, New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy enacted a budget deal with his legislature that increased state taxes on incomes over $1 million. As the country’s second-richest state, this is a big win for progressive taxation. Governor Murphy explains what the tax revenue will go to, how it won’t hurt businesses or cause wealthy people to leave the state, and why it’s the right thing to do in the midst of a national economic crisis .
Election Day AMA Special (with Cristina Uribe)
When are we going to know the results of this election? What can we do about voter suppression? And are Democrats finally giving up on trickle-down economics? Zach and political strategist Cristina Uribe answer these questions and more as they discuss what this election means for our economy and the health of our democracy.
It’s not too late to vote! If you’re unsure how, go to vote.org. And if you already voted by mail, track your ballot and make sure it was accepted!
BONUS: The Haunting of Buchanan Manor
This strange Halloween, we bring to you the harrowing tale of two young trick-or-treaters who dare to stop at James Buchanan’s house. To learn more about the real-life horrors of Buchanan, read Jane Mayer’s ‘Dark Money’ — the spooky real-life story of the right-wing trickle-down machine.
The real looting in America (with Robert Reich)
The real looting in America is the looting of the wages and savings of the bottom 90% by the wealthiest 1%. And although it’s not in the news nearly as much as other types of looting recently, our rigged economic system causes far more harm to our society. Former Secretary of Labor Robert Reich joins Nick and Jessyn to explain who rigged the system, and what it will take to stop the real looting.
To contact your elected leaders about the transfer of $50 trillion over the past 45 years from working Americans to the top 1%, text RAND to 67076 or go to www.civicaction.com/rand.
The pro-business case for reimagining capitalism (with Rebecca Henderson)
Harvard Business School professor Rebecca Henderson tells Nick and Goldy why businesses should reject the idea that the sole purpose of the corporation is to maximize shareholder value, and how businesses can help reform the market system.
Rebecca Henderson is a professor at the Harvard Business School, a research fellow at the National Bureau of Economic Research, and a fellow of both the British Academy and the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. She is an expert on innovation and organizational change, and her research explores the degree to which the private sector can play a major role in building a more sustainable economy.
Author Interview: How to rebuild the middle class (with Jim Tankersley)
Why did the American middle class boom after WWII, and how do we get it booming again? New York Times economics reporter Jim Tankersley joins Paul to lay out the thesis of his new book, ‘The Riches of This Land’—that the economy will thrive when everyone can fully participate in it.
Jim Tankersley covers economic and tax policy for The New York Times. Over more than a decade covering politics and economics in Washington, he has written extensively about the stagnation of the American middle class and the decline of economic opportunity in wide swaths of the country.
Ask Nick Anything
What’s the opposite of neoliberal economics? What would the manifesto of the perfect political party look like? How much money do corporations spend lobbying against taxes, and is it even worth it? Nick and Goldy answer these questions (and more!) from listeners.
The future of health care (with Abdul El-Sayed)
This week, Biden-Sanders unity task force appointee Dr. Abdul El-Sayed walks Nick and Goldy through the Biden transition team’s health care plan.
Abdul El-Sayed is a physician, epidemiologist, public health expert, and progressive activist. He is the Chair of Southpaw Michigan and a contributor at CNN. He is the author of ‘Healing Politics’ and the co-author of the upcoming ‘Medicare for All: A Citizen’s Guide’. He also hosts “America Dissected,” a podcast by Crooked Media.
The powerlessness of forced labor (with Suresh Naidu)
This week, labor market economist Suresh Naidu explains how his field attempts to account for the influence of power while studying employee/employer relationships, and unveils the hidden tricks of the coercive labor market.
Suresh Naidu is a professor of economics and international and public affairs at Columbia University as well as a fellow at the Roosevelt Institute, external faculty at the Santa Fe Institute, and a research fellow at the National Bureau of Economic Research.
Inequality is costing workers $50 trillion (with Carter Price)
Yesterday, a groundbreaking study by the RAND Corporation put the first-ever price tag on how much income inequality costs American workers. The bill? $50 trillion. You read that right: $50 trillion has been diverted from working Americans to the wealthiest 1% since 1975. To make sense of this staggering number, Nick and Goldy are joined by mathematician Carter Price, the study’s co-author.
Redefining rural America (with Olugbenga Ajilore)
Economist Olugbenga Ajilore explains how policymakers should be thinking about rural America (it’s not a monolith), and what interventions we should pursue to provide what he calls a “different kind of help.”
Olugbenga Ajilore is a senior economist at the Center for American Progress. His expertise includes regional economic development, macroeconomic policy, and issues in diversity and inclusion.
Coercion in the workplace (with Elizabeth Anderson)
What would the workplace look like if workers were truly free? Elizabeth Anderson, a leading theorist of democracy and social justice, joins Nick and Goldy for an exploration of the ethical limits of market, theories of value and rational choice, and true freedom.
Elizabeth Anderson is the Arthur F. Thurnau Professor and John Dewey Distinguished University Professor of Philosophy and Women’s Studies at the University of Michigan. She is the author of Private Government: How Employers Rule Our Lives (and Why We Don’t Talk about It), and a recipient of the 2019 MacArthur Fellowship.
Winning on growth (with Michael Linden)
In this special bonus episode, Zach talks to political expert Michael Linden about the message that progressives can, and must, hammer home to win.
Michael Linden is the Executive Director of the Groundwork Collaborative, an organization working to advance an economic vision for strong, broadly shared prosperity and true opportunity for all.
Author Interview: Money, Democracy, and the Life of John Maynard Keynes (with Zachary Carter)
Neoliberalism arose in the 1970s as a response to the failure of Keynesianism to deal with the effects of stagflation. But what is Keynesianism—and who is John Maynard Keynes? In this author interview, Goldy learns from the Keynes expert, HuffPost senior reporter Zachary Carter, how Keynes’ idea defined American liberalism for much of the 1900s.
Zachary Carter is a senior reporter at HuffPost, where he covers economic policy and American politics. He is the author of the New York Times bestseller, ‘The Price of Peace: Money, Democracy, and the Life of John Maynard Keynes’.
A long walk off a short economic cliff (with Trevon Logan)
Recessions are inevitable—but the complete economic catastrophe that we’ve experienced for the last five months was not. Professor Trevon Logan explains where we went wrong, debunks myths about the federal unemployment benefit (no, it doesn’t disincentivize people from returning to work!), and calls on Congress to steer us away from this economic cliff.
Trevon Logan is a Professor of Economics and Associate Dean at Ohio State University, and Director of the American Economic Association Mentoring Program. He is also a Research Associate at the National Bureau of Economic Research. He specializes in economic history, economic demography, and applied microeconomics.
You can’t starve your way out of a recession (with Kitty Richards)
We know that state budget cuts and other austerity policies worsened the 2008 recession and led to a prolonged, uneven recovery. With state and local leaders already clamoring to meet the impending revenue shortfall caused by the COVID crisis, what have we learned, and what can we do differently? In this bonus episode, Paul talks to Groundwork Collaborative strategic advisor Kitty Richards about how states can act now to invest in their residents, bolster their economies, and push back against skyrocketing inequality.
Kitty Richards is a freelance policy consultant and strategic advisor to the Groundwork Collaborative. She has previously worked on federal budget and tax policy at several think tanks, including the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities and the Center for American Progress, and has served as an economic policy staffer on Capitol Hill and in the White House.
Care work is more valuable than ever (with Kate Bahn)
Child care in the U.S. has been in crisis mode for a long time. It’s wildly expensive for families to afford, and difficult for providers to make ends meet. But now, in the age of COVID-19, even the future existence of child care in America is in doubt. Jessyn and Nick tackle the value of care work, the impossibility of finding affordable child care, and the importance of feminist economics with economist Kate Bahn.
Kate Bahn is the director of labor market policy and economist at the Washington Center for Equitable Growth. Her areas of research include gender, race, and ethnicity in the labor market, care work, and monopsonistic labor markets. Previously, she was an economist at the Center for American Progress. Bahn also serves as the executive vice president and secretary for the International Association for Feminist Economics.
It’s time to stop relying on crisis legislation (with Lindsay Owens)
In 12 years, we’ve seen two economic crises with devastating long-term impacts. It seems by now we should be prepared to expect the unexpected… but instead, we’re relying on hastily prepared crisis legislation to save our economy. Again. Economist Lindsay Owens proposes an alternative plan: a standing, off-the-shelf program to stabilize the economy in the event of an economic emergency.
Lindsay Owens is a Fellow at the Great Democracy Initiative, where her writing and research centers on a progressive economic agenda for housing, climate, labor, and healthcare. She previously served as Deputy Chief of Staff and Legislative Director to Representatives Pramila Jayapal and Keith Ellison and as Senior Economic Policy Advisor to Senator Elizabeth Warren.
2020 Election AMA (with Cristina Uribe)
It’s less than 100 days until Election Day. What are the chances of political realignment? Is vote-by-mail a panacea? And how can despairing citizens contribute to real change? Civic Ventures President and campaign expert Zach Silk and veteran political strategist Cristina Uribe are joining forces to answer your questions about the 2020 election this week.
Cristina Uribe is a veteran political strategist and manager working at the intersection of advocacy and politics. She has held senior management roles at several organizations, including California Director of the Ballot Initiative Strategy Center (BISC), Senior Advisor for Strategic Initiatives at the National Education Association (NEA), and Western Regional Director at EMILY’s List. She has led campaigns and civic engagement efforts in dozens of states across the country.
BONUS: Nancy MacLean – Unedited Conversation
Enjoy the full conversation with historian Nancy MacLean, with an extra twelve minutes that didn’t make it into this week’s episode.
Nancy MacLean is an award-winning scholar of the twentieth-century U.S. and the William H. Chafe Distinguished Professor of History and Public Policy at Duke University. Her book, Democracy in Chains: The Deep History of the Radical Right’s Stealth Plan for America, was a New York Times bestseller and finalist for the National Book Award, and The Nation magazine named it the “Most Valuable Book” of the year.
How the radical right weaponized ideology (with Nancy MacLean)
If it seems to you like the ultimate goal of the most extreme conservatives is to undermine democracy and cripple democratic institutions—well, according to historian Nancy MacLean, you’re right. This week, MacLean unpacks the meteoric rise in popularity of the radical right’s ideas, and offers a way forward for progressives, based on lessons from successful social movements throughout American history.
Nancy MacLean is an award-winning scholar of the twentieth-century U.S. and the William H. Chafe Distinguished Professor of History and Public Policy at Duke University. Her book, Democracy in Chains: The Deep History of the Radical Right’s Stealth Plan for America, was a New York Times bestseller and finalist for the National Book Award, and The Nation magazine named it the “Most Valuable Book” of the year.
How Econ 101 upholds racist systems (with Joelle Gamble)
The foundational metaphor of neoliberalism is that a rising tide lifts all boats. But, like many other assumptions in economic thought, that idea willfully ignores racism. Economist Joelle Gamble joins Jessyn and Nick to explain that when economists fail to scrutinize theories through the lens of race, they perpetuate racist outcomes. Plus, The Sadie Collective co-founder Fanta Traore describes how the economics field can deliberate measures to address the exclusion of Black economists.
Joelle Gamble is a principal with the reimagining capitalism team at Omidyar Network, where she focuses on topics related to building the power of working people and shaping a new economic paradigm. Joelle writes on topics of race, labor, and technology, and sits on the board of directors of the Roosevelt Institute.
There’s no herd immunity to greed (with Thomas Friedman)
Our global system is fragile because we made decisions that made it that way. Where did we go wrong? This week, New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman joins Nick and Goldy to suggest that greed and unfettered globalization are to blame for our vulnerable system, and to discuss what we need to do to get back on track.
Thomas Friedman is a New York Times columnist, the author of six bestselling books, and a three-time Pulitzer Prize winner.
Debunking deficit myths (with Stephanie Kelton)
Modern Monetary Theory is an attempt to accurately describe how government debt and complex financial systems actually work. MMT can help us responsibly use our resources, and no one is more knowledgeable on the subject than our returning guest this week, Professor Stephanie Kelton. As Congressional debates over the need for a new stimulus package heat up, Kelton explains the myths surrounding MMT and what a new understanding of the budget could do for our economy.
Stephanie Kelton is a Professor of Economics and Public Policy at Stony Brook University. She is the leading expert on Modern Monetary Theory. Her new book, The Deficit Myth: Modern Monetary Theory and the Birth of the People’s Economy, shows how to break free of flawed deficit thinking.
People are basically good (with Rutger Bregman)
The fundamentals of economic thought are built on the idea that humans are fundamentally self-interested. But, according to historian Rutger Bregman, that’s a misconception — in fact, humans are fundamentally good, and if we want to realistically address our greatest challenges, we need to reconsider our view of our own human nature.
Rutger Bregman is a historian. He has published four books on history, philosophy, and economics, including Utopia for Realists and his latest book, Humankind: A Hopeful History.
Vaccine development needs new incentives (with Tahir Amin)
COVID-19 has exposed the limits of the pharmaceutical market model. This week, patent law expert Tahir Amin joins the show to explain why vaccine development needs new incentives.
Tahir Amin is an attorney dedicated to reshaping patent law to better serve the public. He is the Co-Founder and Co-ED of the Initiative for Medicines, Access, and Knowledge (I-MAK), a global nonprofit organization of attorneys, scientists, and health experts working on systemic changes to intellectual property and the political economy of pharmaceutical innovation.
Re-imagining public safety (with King County Councilmember Girmay Zahilay)
Budgets are a reflection of our values, and the money we budget for the police is no exception. Our state and local budgets for what we call “safety” are not getting outcomes that reflect our morals. Seattle-area King County Councilmember Girmay Zahilay joins Nick and Jessyn to lay out five policies elected officials should be pledging to support right now to re-imagine public safety.
Girmay Zahilay is a member of the King County Council from District 2. He is an attorney, non-profit founder, and organizer.
Podcast Blackout
This week, we are participating in #PodcastBlackout to amplify the seriousness of the need for action to address institutional racism and police violence. After a brief note from Nick, this episode will air 8 minutes and 46 seconds of silence. Below, we’ve included organizations that are doing the anti-racist work to reform power structures in this country — we hope that you’ll turn your attention to them.
Why Wall Street gets a bailout and you don’t (with Matt Stoller)
Why are rich corporations getting more stimulus money from the government, and getting it faster, than small businesses and individuals? Matt Stoller returns to the show to explain how recovery funds are distributed: Money isn’t neutral, and how money travels matters.
Matt Stoller is the author of BIG, a newsletter about monopoly and finance, and the Director of Research at the American Economic Liberties Project. His recent book, ‘Goliath: The 100-Year War Between Monopoly Power and Democracy’, examines how concentrated financial power and consumerism transformed American politics.
Why the market fails in a crisis (with Joseph Stiglitz)
One of the central theories of classical economics is that markets respond quickly and efficiently to changes in demand. But the pandemic clearly demonstrates that the markets aren’t the efficient adapters that classic economists believe them to be. Nobel laureate economist Joseph Stiglitz explains why the tendency to believe in the market is one of the most deeply rooted trickle-down myths, and why government intervention is the best way forward through this economic downturn.
Joseph Stiglitz is a Nobel laureate economist and a professor at Columbia University. He is also the co-chair of the High-Level Expert Group on the Measurement of Economic Performance and Social Progress at the OECD, and the Chief Economist of the Roosevelt Institute. In 2011, Stiglitz was named by Time magazine as one of the 100 most influential people in the world. Known for his pioneering work on asymmetric information, Stiglitz focuses on income distribution, risk, corporate governance, public policy, macroeconomics, and globalization. His most recent book, People, Power, and Profits, was just released in paperback.
Author Interview: Inside the Secret War on Voting with Thom Hartmann
Paul is joined this week by radio host Thom Hartmann to introduce Thom’s most recent book, ‘The Hidden History of the War on Voting: Who Stole Your Vote and How to Get It Back’. In this poignant interview, Thom explains the strategies and tactics that elites have long employed to disenfranchise American citizens and suppress votes.
Thom Hartmann is a progressive national and internationally syndicated talk show host. Talkers magazine named him America’s most important progressive host and has named his show one of the top ten talk radio shows in the country every year for over a decade. A four-time recipient of the Project Censored Award, Hartmann is also a New York Times bestselling author of twenty-six books, translated into multiple languages.
Inequality and coronavirus (with Heather Boushey and Michelle Holder)
The burdens of this pandemic are not borne equally. Economists Heather Boushey and Michelle Holder join the show this week to expose how the coronavirus is exacerbating the already-deep inequalities in our society.
Heather Boushey is the President & CEO and co-founder of the Washington Center for Equitable Growth. She is one of the nation’s most influential voices on economic policy and a leading economist who focuses on the intersection between economic inequality, growth, and public policy. Her latest book is Unbound: How Economic Inequality Constricts Our Economy and What We Can Do About It.
Michelle Holder is an Assistant Professor of Economics at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, City University of New York. Prior to joining the John Jay faculty, she worked as an economist for over a decade in both the non-profit and government sectors, including as senior labor market analyst at an 160-year-old nonprofit antipoverty organization where she wrote about labor force and poverty trends in New York City, and as an economist at the Office of the State deputy Comptroller for NYC where she monitored and wrote about trends in the low-wage labor force.
Austerity will make this recession worse (with Mike Konczal)
When revenues and expenses don’t add up in times of crisis, governments often turn to budget cuts and other austerity measures to balance their accounts. But economists widely agree that the most valuable lesson from the Great Recession is that austerity made the recession worse and slowed down recovery. Mike Konczal joins the show this week to explain why, in a recession, stimulus is particularly powerful and austerity is particularly harmful.
Mike Konczal is the Director of Progressive Thought at the Roosevelt Institute, where he works on financial reform, unemployment, inequality, and a progressive vision of the economy. He is a columnist at Vox, a contributor to The Nation, and a contributing editor at Dissent.
Labor regulations in the gaming industry (with Jennifer Hale)
Prolific voice actor Jennifer Hale joins Paul and Stephen to discuss her work in two very different fields: the video game industry, which largely isn’t unionized, and the animated film industry, which enjoys strong union protections.
Jennifer Hale is a voice actress known for her work in video game series including Baldur’s Gate, Mass Effect, Halo, World of Warcraft, Spider Man, and many more. In 2013, she was recognized by Guinness World Records as the most prolific female video game voice actor.
Leadership failure made the U.S. pandemic worse (with Ronald Klain)
Pathogens are inevitable—but the scale of disaster accompanying this pandemic was not. Ronald Klain, President Obama’s Ebola czar, joins Nick and Goldy to discuss why the extent of economic collapse and deaths we’ve seen from COVID-19 is borne of government unpreparedness and leadership failure, not fate. nnRonald Klain is a lawyer who served as the White House Ebola response coordinator for President Obama. He has held a wide variety of legal and policy positions in government, including his service as chief of staff to VPs Biden and Gore, chief of staff to the attorney general, associate counsel to the president, and chief counsel to the Senate Judiciary Committee. He is currently an advisor to the Biden 2020 campaign.nnTwitter: @RonaldKlainnnFurther reading: nConfronting the Pandemic Threat: https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/40/confronting-the-pandemic-threat/nWe’re past ‘if’ on the coronavirus. We’re on to ‘how bad will it be?’: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-coronavirus-has-landed-in-the-us-heres-how-we-can-reduce-the-risk/2020/01/22/afebe9ee-3d53-11ea-baca-eb7ace0a3455_story.htmlnTrump says US has coronavirus ‘completely under control’ as Washington state confirms first case outside of Asia: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-coronavirus-china-wuhan-disease-outbreak-airport-screening-travel-a9296926.htmlnObama’s ebola czar on what strong federal response looks like: https://www.wired.com/story/ebola-czar-ron-klain-federal-coronavirus-response/nThe huge cost of waiting to contain the pandemic: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/opinion/covid-social-distancing.htmlnnWebsite: https://pitchforkeconomics.com/nTwitter: @PitchforkEconnInstagram: @pitchforkeconomicsnNick’s twitter: @NickHanauernLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
What’s happening in professional sports right now? (A curiosity break with Andrew Brandt)
What does the future of American sports look like? Okay, okay—we know this is out of our wheelhouse. But this week, we’re examining how the global pandemic has affected one very specific corner of the economy: professional sports leagues. Expert Andrew Brandt lays out the scale of losses due to cancellations in an industry that generates $80 billion a year just in direct revenue for North American leagues—plus several hundreds of billions more in indirect revenue for ancillary businesses (like the folks who staff the arenas). nnAndrew Brandt is Professor of Practice and Executive Director of the Moorad Center for the Study of Sports Law at Villanova Law School. A contributor to ESPN and Sports Illustrated, he is also the host of the ‘Business of Sports’ podcast. nnTwitter: @AndrewBrandtnnClips from CBS Evening News, NBC Sports, and ABC News.nnFurther reading:nThe Coronavirus’s Economic Effect On Sports Could Be Staggering: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-coronaviruss-economic-effect-on-sports-could-be-staggering/nnNearly 75% of Americans Wouldn’t Attend Games If No COVID-19 Vaccine Is Developed, Poll Says: https://www.si.com/sports-illustrated/2020/04/09/poll-sports-coronavirus-returnnnWebsite: https://pitchforkeconomics.com/nTwitter: @PitchforkEconnInstagram: @pitchforkeconomicsnNick’s twitter: @NickHanauernLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
What’s changed since the 1918 pandemic? (A history lesson with Nancy Bristow)
How does our response to the coronavirus pandemic compare to our response 100 years ago, when what is commonly known as the “Spanish Flu” swept through America? Historian Nancy Bristow helps Annie understand the lessons American society learned from the 1918 influenza epidemic, and what we haven’t yet gotten right. nnNancy Bristow is the History Department Chair at the University of Puget Sound, where she teaches twentieth-century American history with an emphasis on race, gender, and social change. She is the author of ‘American Pandemic: The Lost Worlds of the 1918 Influenza Epidemic’. nnTwitter: @univpugetsoundn@NancyKBristownnFurther reading: nAmerican Pandemic on Bookshop.org, an independent site that’s raising money for independent bookstores that are closed during the pandemic: https://bookshop.org/books/american-pandemic-the-lost-worlds-of-the-1918-influenza-epidemic/9780190238551nnOr on IndieBound: https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780190238551nnCities that went all in on social distancing in 1918 emerged stronger for it: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/03/upshot/coronavirus-cities-social-distancing-better-employment.htmlnnWebsite: https://pitchforkeconomics.com/nTwitter: @PitchforkEconnInstagram: @pitchforkeconomicsnNick’s twitter: @NickHanauernLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices