Industrial policy is back at the center of the economic debate. But tariffs, factories, and reshoring are only part of the story. In this 2023 conversation, development economist Isabel Estevez joins Nick and Goldy to argue that industrial policy is ultimately about choices: what we produce, how we produce it, and who benefits. She explains why a smart industrial strategy has to look beyond manufacturing output to workers, communities, climate, public investment, and the broader public good.

Because the real debate isn’t whether the government shapes markets. It already does. The question is what—and who—we’re shaping them for.

Industrial Policy (IP) has dominated conversations in economic and political circles thanks to President Biden’s big investments in manufacturing, infrastructure, and working Americans. But according to today’s guest, development economist Isabel Estevez, the conversation around IP is too narrow. IP is not just about manufacturing and clean energy, she argues—smart IP also encompasses policies that improve outcomes for people, like reducing child poverty and cleaning our drinking water.