It’s Paul and Goldy’s summer reading list! If you missed the last one, you can find that episode here.
We want to know what you’re reading, too. Leave us a comment on Instagram: @pitchforkeconomics
Remember to shop local and small when you can, or order from IndieBound or Bookshop.org—both of which support independent bookstores! All of these books are also likely available through your library.
Every book mentioned in this episode:
Corporate Bullsh*t – Nick Hanauer, Joan Walsh, and Donald Cohen
The Ministry for the Future – Kim Stanley Robinson
A Spectre, Haunting – China Miéville
The City & the City – China Miéville
Fight Like Hell – Kim Kelly
Rich White Men – Garrett Neiman
The 9.9 Percent – Matthew Stewart
When the President Calls – Simon W. Bowmaker
Capitalism and Freedom – Milton Friedman
Essential – Jamie K. McCallum
The Journey of Humanity – Oded Galor
SPQR – Mary Beard
The Death and Life of Great American Cities – Jane Jacobs
When McKinsey Comes to Town – Walt Bogdanich & Michael Forsyth
Humanly Possible – Sarah Bakewell
Bloodlands – Timothy Snyder
The Road to Unfreedom – Timothy Snyder
On Tyranny – Timothy Snyder
Black Earth – Timothy Snyder
Pre-Order Nick’s new book with Joan Walsh and Donald Cohen, Corporate Bullsh*t from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Corporate-Bullsh-Exposing-Half-Truths-Protect/dp/1620977516
Pre-Order Nick’s new book with Joan Walsh and Donald Cohen, Corporate Bullsh*t from Bookshop: https://bookshop.org/p/books/it-s-never-our-fault-and-other-shameless-excuses-a-compendium-of-corporate-lies-that-protect-profits-and-thwart-progress-donald-cohen/18096544?ean=9781620977514
Website: https://pitchforkeconomics.com
Twitter: @PitchforkEcon
Instagram: @pitchforkeconomics
Nick’s twitter: @NickHanauer
Goldy:
Before we get to the show, I want to tell you about another podcast I think you’ll like from our friends at the Roosevelt Institute and the New Republic. It’s called How to Save a Country, hopefully ours, and it explores how a big part of the progressive vision for America’s future is economic. It digs into the concepts and conflicts reshaping our nation, and introduces the thinkers, doers, and organizers who are working to make the US a more democratic and just place to live. People who are connecting the dots between economics, law, and politics, hosts Felicia Wong and Michael Tomasky, both former Pitchfork guests, bring you the good news and the big ideas that point to a less fractured, more stable, more equal future. You can find How to Save a Country wherever you get your favorite podcasts.
As our regular listeners might expect, really rich people like to collect things. You know, expensive trinkets like fancy cars, houses, illegitimate children. Our benevolent plutocratic overlord, Nick Hanauer, is no different, except what he likes to collect is ex Alt Weekly journalists like me and my cohost for today’s episode, Paul Constant.
Paul Constant:
Hi.
Goldy:
Hell, Paul.
Paul Constant:
That was probably the best introduction I’ve ever had in my life, Goldy. Thanks. Yeah.
Goldy:
Yeah. Paul and I first met when we both worked at The Stranger where he was the books and sandwich editor, which makes him the perfect stand-in or sit-in for Nick on this year’s Summer Reading List episode. Paul, I’m sure the audience wants to know, what sandwiches are you eating this summer?
Paul Constant:
Well, if you’re in Seattle, I always recommend Paseo, which is just a delightful sandwich. Yeah. I had a column in The Stranger, which is in Alt Weekly in Seattle, where I did review sandwiches. More importantly, for the purposes of this episode, I wrote about books every week for The Stranger, and then on my own site, the Seattle Review of Books, and I still write about books pretty frequently for The Seattle Times. If you need something read quickly, I’m the man on the Civic Ventures team to get it done.
Goldy:
And if you need something written slowly, I’m the man on the Civic Ventures team to get it done. Well, so I guess right off the bat, Paul, I understand there’s a really great book coming out. What, this September?
Paul Constant:
That’s right, this September. It’s very exciting. There is a book coming out called Corporate Bullsh*t. As is the fashion in publishing today, bullshit is spelled with an asterisk in place of the I in the title, Corporate Bullsh*t: Exposing the Lies and Half-Truths That Protect Profit, Power, and Wealth in America. It is a book with three authors, and one of whom is our very own Nick Hanauer. It’s also co-written by Joan Walsh of The Nation, and Donald Cohen.
It is an encyclopedia of, well, corporate bullshit. Basically, all of the lies that big industries have told over the course of the history of America in order to convince ordinary Americans that what’s best for industry is also good for ordinary Americans. Things like keeping child labor legal, keeping cigarettes unregulated. You know, preventing the unnecessary expense of seatbelts. Things like that.
Goldy:
Yeah. Regulations kill growth and productivity, and raising the minimum wage kills jobs. It turns out that if we ban child labor, I mean, US industry is going to collapse. There’s no way we can be competitive with other nations. It turns out that these aren’t new. These have been recycled for the past 150 years?
Paul Constant:
Yeah. More or less, yeah. It’s really exciting. I’ve never seen all of these lies in one place like this before. It’s really sort of a stunning document when you put it all together. You see how little the arguments have changed, and how long this has been going on. It’s really interesting. I think it’ll also be a really useful toolkit for people when they’re confronted with Chamber of Commerce hacks who say that raising the minimum wage will only hurt the very people it is intended to help, and things like that.
Goldy:
Right, so it’s coming out. This is a Summer Reading List, but it’s coming out late summer, September. You can preorder it now. Right? Is that right, Paul? You can-
Paul Constant:
That’s absolutely right. You can order it on Bookshop.
Goldy:
You can go to your favorite local bookstore, or your favorite online monopoly, if that’s how you want to spend your money.
Paul Constant:
Mm-hmm, Bookshop.org. You can also order it from Amazon, and Barnes and Noble, and all the usual suspects, or you can put in a hold at your local public library, because those things do count. Libraries buy the books just like everybody else. If you want to help out, and you’re hurting for funds, it is always useful to request a book from the public library. That’s a little publishing insider tip for you there.
Goldy:
I get a lot of my books from the library. We are fortunate in Seattle to have two very fine library systems, the Seattle Public Library and the King County Library system. Because we live in both, we can get books from both. Honestly, I’ve admitted this before. Most of the books I get are audiobooks, because I tend to do a lot. I tend to read a lot of heavy non-fiction stuff, and I’ll do it on my walks, and gardening, and while cooking, and whatever.
I’m going to start, Paul. This is not a surprise to you, no, but would otherwise be a surprise. I listened to a fiction book last year that I liked a lot, and I highly recommend. It is The Ministry for the Future. We’ve had the author on the podcast, Kim Stanley Robinson. It not only was my first novel in 25 years, but it’s ostensibly about climate change, but really, really, it’s a secret. It’s about economics.
Paul Constant:
Kim Stanley Robinson is an amazing sci-fi author. One of the most sort of thoughtful and thorough thinkers, I think, in the field of science fiction today, because he really drills down into a subject. He takes it all very seriously. He wrote an amazing trilogy about Mars, life on Mars, moving to Mars. It’s what we call hard science fiction. It’s very detailed, and it’s also very informative. Yeah. Ministry of the Future, I agree with you. It’s just really hopeful.
Goldy:
Well, it ends hopeful.
Paul Constant:
Sure.
Goldy:
It starts pretty dark. It takes a while to get to the hope.
Paul Constant:
Yeah. Yeah.
Goldy:
Also, it’s a very unorthodox narrative structure to the book, which I found interesting in itself. Obviously, the storyline, his vision of the future. Also, what a cogent and easy explanation of some really complex economic ideas, how much economics is responsible for the looming climate crisis, and how much rethinking economics is necessary to address it, and hopefully survive it. Highly recommend that.
I’m going to surprise you with another one quick before we get to some of the books that are coming out this summer. I read, Paul. This is a surprise. I read another fiction author, another speculative fiction author, but it wasn’t a work of fiction. It was a work of nonfiction. China Miéville. China Miéville. Are you familiar with him?
Paul Constant:
I’ve done an event with China Miéville. He was a great guy.
Goldy:
I read his book, A Spectre, Haunting, which is a beautifully written deep dive into The Communist Manifesto, and why it’s still relevant today. I know there are critics who will accuse me and Nick of being socialists. We are not socialists. We are not communists, but I’ve always loved The Communist Manifesto. It is a beautifully written book, and it is surprisingly pertinent to what’s going on in the world today. There’s a lot of insight in it, and there’s a lot of insight into Miéville’s deep exploration of the book.
Paul Constant:
Miéville, again, is another one of those sci-fi authors who is very economically focused. He began his career as kind of a Dickensian figure. His book Perdido Street Station feels like it could be a Dickens novel set in space with bug-headed people, and things like that. Yeah. A really thoughtful economic thinker. I haven’t read this one in particular. He puts out a lot of books, but I’m very interested to. That’ll go on my list too.
Goldy:
If you had to recommend one for me, Paul, which one should I read this summer? What’s my beach reading this summer if I want a China Miéville book?
Paul Constant:
Boy, so-
Goldy:
Like I’m going to buy a physical copy and read it on the beach.
Paul Constant:
Of a China Miéville novel? I would recommend The City & the City. It’s a spy thriller that is sort of like a Cold War era thing, only it takes place in the city. The city is divided by invisible borders within the city, so people in the city aren’t allowed to interact with people on the other side of this border in the city. It’s a very psychological look at The Cold War. It’s sort of an exploration of the arbitrariness of borders, but it’s also a super solid spy thriller, too, that I recommend to anybody. He was-
Goldy:
Okay.
Paul Constant:
Yeah. When I did the event with him, he was out here for touring to support that book. It’s one of my favorites, and it’s the one I usually recommend to people who are either not super into sci-fi or are getting back into reading novels again, like you.
Goldy:
Great. I will take your advice. I will get a physical copy of that book, and maybe a pair of reading glasses for the first time because I’m old, and sit on the beach and read that book this summer when I go to the Jersey Shore, as I do every summer.
Okay, Paul. So, speaking of summer, what’s coming up? What are you looking forward to?
Paul Constant:
One thing that I want our listeners to know about that is coming out in paperback, so it’s a little bit more of an affordable choice, is Kim Kelly’s book Fight Like Hell: The Untold History of American Labor. That comes out in paperback this August, so still time for you to take it to the beach. I read it in hardcover. It’s a really wonderful book that sort of examines the idea of the fight for labor and workers in America. That, for instance, freed Black women, freed Black slaves, were among the first workers to sort of organize in America and fight for their rights as workers. There’s Jewish immigrant garment workers, Asian American field workers.
It’s sort of a history of the American worker that decentralizes the story of white men working in factories pulling together as unions. It tells the story of these are people who always have to fight for their rights, and so it stands to reason that they were sort of the foremothers and forefathers of the American labor movement. It’s a really inspiring book, I think, and it’s a really eye-opening look into American history from an angle that a lot of people didn’t get in their high school or college labor history classes.
Goldy:
That sounds like something I’m going to have to read.
Paul Constant:
Yeah. Yeah. That one is out in audio and in hardcover, so if you’re looking for something to listen to on the flight, then you can get that one already.
Goldy:
Or on one of my long walks. What else are you looking forward to?
Paul Constant:
There are a few books that I’m looking forward to, one of which I think is really going to appeal to fans of Nick and what Nick does. It is called Rich White Men: What It Takes to Uproot the Old Boys’ Club and Transform America. The interesting angle on this is the author. His name is Garrett Neiman. He’s a serial nonprofit entrepreneur, so his job for many years was to get rich white men to donate money to nonprofit organizations. He’s been in the corner offices of Goldman Sachs, and McKinsey, and Harvard, and all the places that rich white men have felt comfortable for centuries. So, this is kind of a tell-all about the methods that they use to protect their wealth, the ways that they keep other people outside of their system, and the ways that they will try to keep the system going for as long as they possibly can. If you’re into insidery accounts, and chances are if you’re listening to this podcast you do, this one is right up at the top of my summer reading list.
Goldy:
Okay, another one. Because, you know, I’m always trying to understand Nick and his people better.
Paul Constant:
Yeah. Well, this will give you some insight, I think.
Goldy:
Okay. So, speaking of the .1%, I’m going to recommend a book that’s actually a couple years old. Are you like me, Paul? Do you get into authors where-
Paul Constant:
Yeah.
Goldy:
Like you read one of their books, and then you have to read all of their books?
Paul Constant:
Absolutely, yeah. Yeah.
Goldy:
Okay. So, last summer reading list, I recommended Matthew Stewart’s Nature’s God, which seems like a weird book for this. It’s about, amongst other things, Ethan Allen, but also the enlightenment philosophy that inspired the Founding Fathers, and how it’s not necessarily what some of us think.
He has a more recent book which I actually reread recently. I’ve read it twice now in the past couple years. It’s called The 9.9 Percent: The New Aristocracy That Is Entrenching Inequality and Warping Our Culture. Rather than aimed at the .1%, which is Nick, which he mentions, which still play a big role in inequality. He talks about the rest of that top 10%. As he says, the white coats and white shoes, the professional class, the financial class, who are playing a big role in perpetrating the inequality that is tearing this nation apart, and ultimately undermining the 9.9% too.
I think a lot of our listeners who will see themselves in this book, in the people he describes. I certainly saw myself in it, and my own family. My father was a doctor. The way we were raised, and the way we’ve raised our children. It’s a beautifully written book at times. He starts it off with some personal narrative, which he weaves throughout the book, so it’s a book about him and his family as well. Highly recommend it. Really insightful. Very in tune with the type of stuff that we’re thinking about, talking about, writing about. Uses a little different language in spots, but very much a fellow traveler on economics.
Paul Constant:
That sounds great. To change gears a little bit, an underappreciated tradition of summer, for me, is a summer hate read, when I make a point of reading a Glenn Beck thriller, or a book by a prominent Republican politician, or something like that. I don’t know what it is, but it’s something that I really enjoy doing when I’m trying to relax. It’s probably a-
Goldy:
To relax?
Paul Constant:
Yeah. Yeah, to relax.
Goldy:
Not to arm yourself?
Paul Constant:
No. Well, a little bit of that as well, but it is something I enjoy doing on vacation. I can’t exactly explain why, except for I see these books in other travelers’ hands on airplanes, and things like that. Maybe I just want to get into the mindset of what they’re thinking, or something like that. To call this a summer hate read, it might sound a little unkind to the author, but I think you’ll understand when you hear it. It’s called When the President Calls: Conversations with Economic Policymakers. It’s by Simon W. Bowmaker, and it features interviews with 35 economic policymakers who served presidents from Nixon to Trump.
So, I’m fairly certain that 35 economic policy makers, of the 35, I probably won’t agree with any of them. Maybe one. I don’t know. Even the economic policymakers who worked for Clinton and Obama were fairly neoliberal, but I am really into hearing the justifications of why they made the decisions that they did, what they think about their economic actions in hindsight, and all that. I’m sure I’m going to be enraged multiple times when I’m reading this book, but I’m kind of looking forward to that. It’ll fill my summer hate reading slot for sure.
Goldy:
Hate reading, yeah. I’m not going to recommend this book, but I recently reread Milton Friedman’s Capitalism and Freedom.
Paul Constant:
Yeah?
Goldy:
Which I had never actually read cover to cover before. Man, what a brilliant, manipulative propagandist he is. I mean, if you want to understand where we are, how we got into the neoliberal era, and the arguments underlying it … Gosh. This is Milton Friedman’s world. His arguments are so cleverly dishonest. You know me. Back when I was blogging, I liked to do a good fisking. You know, I could take this entire book line by line and criticize it. There is an untruth hiding behind in the subtext of every paragraph of that book. It’s pretty amazing.
Paul Constant:
So were you quivering with rage, or were you taking notes to steal some of his techniques?
Goldy:
I was taking notes.
Paul Constant:
Yeah.
Goldy:
I was. I mean, that’s why I was reading it. I was trying to be constructive. You know, he famously talked about how we got into this was when we got the economic crisis of the 1970s, the stagflation. He basically said they’d been working on this for a few decades, and it was time for a new idea, and they were the ones prepared. They had their narrative down pat. They had been refining it, and they were ready to go. That’s the one that took hold in the 1970s, because the old Keynesians had nothing else. There was no alternative at that point, and they won. They won the ideological war by just being ready for it.
To some extent, I believe that’s what we’ve been doing at Civic Ventures, and with a lot of our allies, is we’ve been preparing for the moment I think we’re in now, where we’ve got the better ideas. We have an alternative explanation of how the economy works, and how it works better. Yeah. I look to people like Milton Friedman for both inspiration and as a lesson for how to change the world. Hopefully this time for the better.
Paul Constant:
So, another category of book that I enjoy reading in the summer vacation period is the current events book, the sort of thing that’s too long to be in the newspaper, but just as relevant to what’s going on in the conversation. There’s a book coming out late July that I’m very excited to read. The author is going on tour. He’s going to be in Seattle. I think at Third Place Books on July 27th, and I think he’s doing at least a West Cost tour, so check your local bookstores for that. It’s called Essential: How the Pandemic Transformed the Long Fight for Worker Justice.
It’s an exploration, of course, of the early days of the pandemic when we were all locked down, and we were celebrating essential workers who were delivering food from grocery stores, and delivering packages, and making sure that everyone who was working from home had everything they needed. You know, also the healthcare workers, and the janitors, and the public transit drivers, and just everybody who we have traditionally paid less and kept at the margins of society who suddenly became the heroes of society. I mean, I would argue they’ve always been the heroes of society, but were recognized as the heroes of society for maybe the first time in my life.
You know, we have not seen that sort of celebration continue as rich people get back into the business of protecting their profits and not giving out raises. I am interested in reading this book and seeing how we can keep that momentum going, because it is still in people’s memories, even though it was three years ago that the lockdowns were happening. I am super excited to read this book, and to see how we can sort of instantiate some of that good will that was built up and turn it into policy that actually helps the workers who are truly the people who make sure that society doesn’t collapse, basically. Not the investment bankers and CEOs, but the delivery drivers, and the cleaners, and the warehouse workers.
Goldy:
I think historians will be looking back on the pandemic as the tipping point in terms of how we think about economics in general. I mean, we were moving there anyway. This put us over the top. A lot of things about the pandemic really have changed attitudes and changed thinking, so that sounds like an interesting book.
Paul Constant:
Yeah. I’m really excited for this one. I hope to catch the author when he’s in town. I bet, on the publisher’s website, which, if we find it, we’ll throw it in the show notes, if he’s coming to a city near you, he would probably appreciate it if you came to a reading and found out what his book’s all about.
Goldy:
Well, again, I don’t know what’s coming out, because I’m not you, Paul. I’m not looking at the future books. I did read a handful of books. You know me. Like I said, I don’t read a lot of fiction. When I’m looking for relaxing reads, Paul, what do I read? History.
Paul Constant:
Not poetry.
Goldy:
History. I read history.
Paul Constant:
Uh-huh.
Goldy:
That is my safe space, my relaxation. The first one, it’s kind of part history, part science. A book I really loved. Again, we had the author on. Oded Galor’s The Journey of Humanity: The Origins of Wealth and Inequality. Absolutely loved this book. What I would say is, if you liked Jared Diamond’s Guns, Germs, and Steel, or Yuval Harari’s Sapiens, this is in that vein, but certainly it’s an alternative narrative to Guns, Germs, and Steel. Trying to explain the unequal evolution of wealth in the world today, why parts of the world modernized and became wealthy as opposed to others.
It does have a lot to do with colonialism, and political institutions, and social structure, but also geographical characteristics. One of the points he makes is diversity. Diversity of thought, diversity of people. It’s diversity that drives innovation and drives wealth creation. The ability to do that, to be diverse and collaborate centrally, and have a large population and a diverse technological base, just led to a phase change over the past 200 years that has made this world entirely different from the world that preceded it. Highly recommend that book.
Another history book, an oldie but goodie, which I think this is like the second time I’ve listened to the book on walks, because I love ancient history. I’m sure you’ve read SPQR, Mary Beard’s history of ancient Rome.
Paul Constant:
Yeah. I think I recommended that one to you.
Goldy:
Yeah.
Paul Constant:
I think that I did.
Goldy:
Yeah. I’ve read it twice. You know, when I said read, this is a book that I listened to. I love ancient history. I’ve been soaking it up over the past few years. Audiobooks have really enhanced my knowledge of ancient history, because it’s a big book. When you have a lot of time in the summer, and you want some relaxing reading, this is a good one. Great one, I should say. One of the best on the subject.
Paul Constant:
Yeah. You know, talking about audiobooks and walking around, that’s something I do all the time. Something I would like to recommend to readers, this is not a new book by any means, but Jane Jacobs’ The Death and Life of Great American Cities is a classic of urbanism that’s seen a revival in the last 10 years or so. It’s really instructive to listen to that book and to walk around a city, because it’s almost like having a guided tour of how cities work, and how they don’t work. You know? It was like having a one on one tour from Jane Jacobs. You know, she was in my ear talking about the ideas of cities and how they work as I was walking around Seattle, and seeing how it was recovering and not recovering from the pandemic, and facing all of its different problems and opportunities. That’s an audiobook experience that I recommend to anybody.
Goldy:
In context, stunning insight from a non-expert at the time.
Paul Constant:
Yeah. Yeah.
Goldy:
Just stunning insight into how cities work when you think about when it was written. What, in the 1950s? Is that right?
Paul Constant:
Yeah. She transformed the field, which offers hope to all of us non-experts out here.
Goldy:
Yeah. I’m a big fan of non-experts … being one myself … What else, Paul?
Paul Constant:
Yeah. Recently out in paperback is Michael Forsyth’s book, When McKinsey Comes to Town. That’s about the consulting firm McKinsey, and all of the economic damage that it has done in the name of creating more wealth for the top 1%, so that’s one.
Goldy:
Yeah. There’s a whole chapter on McKinsey in Matthew Stewart’s The 9.9 Percent. He was a former McKinsey consultant. That sounds great. If you don’t know what McKinsey is, you don’t understand why the world looks like it does today.
Paul Constant:
It’s a consulting firm to the rich and powerful about how to get more rich and powerful, basically.
Goldy:
Uh-huh.
Paul Constant:
Right? That’s the sum up, but it’s a very prestigious firm that has seen a lot of great important historical figures go through it and maybe holds a little bit too much power, which is sort of the idea behind Forsyth’s book.
Goldy:
I’ve got one other esoteric history book that I read recently. Actually, it’s a fairly new book. I think it came out in March. Sarah Bakewell’s Humanly Possible: Seven Hundred Years of Humanist Freethinking, Inquiry, and Hope. Really, it’s a history of humanism. I was interested in it because I think we’ve talked about it on the podcast. We’re describing our economic ideology as market humanism, so we’ve taken that humanist word. In reading that book, I also discovered that I, myself, really am a humanist in the renaissance Italian sense of the word, and that basically I get to do my work courtesy of a wealthy patron.
Paul Constant:
You know, Goldy, the books that you’re recommending, a lot of them are weirdly hopeful and optimistic. Are you slipping? Are you losing your touch?
Goldy:
No. No.
Paul Constant:
You’re promoting all these feel good books.
Goldy:
Well, here’s the thing. You’ve got to deceive yourself into thinking it’s possible to make the world better. If you want to go on the dark side, Paul, like I said, for those of you who want something darker, I get into authors. I got into an author over the last year where I read a bunch of his books, Timothy Snyder. Are you familiar with Timothy Snyder, Paul?
Paul Constant:
Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
Goldy:
Yeah.
Paul Constant:
That’s more like it.
Goldy:
So if you want to understand some of the history of what’s happening in Ukraine right now, Timothy Snyder’s book, The Bloodlands, gives you a great history of that region between Germany and Russia, and why it has been the source of so much conflict. In his theory, kind of the focus of Hitler was really about colonizing Ukraine, and also the focus of Putin right now. I started reading that just to understand what was going on, and then that led me to his books The Road to Unfreedom, and On Tyranny. Those are both more commentaries on what’s going on today. The Road to Unfreedom talks a lot about the rise of authoritarian governments in Putin’s Russia, and Hungary, and Poland. On Tyranny I think is a bit more of a meditation on what potentially could be happening in the United States.
Then, really, really dark, if you want to go there, is his book Black Earth, which is about the Holocaust. Again, going back to Central Europe. So there. There’s the dark stuff, Paul.
Paul Constant:
Yeah. I have to say, I interviewed Timothy Snyder at the height of lockdowns for an online book event for an illustrated edition of On Tyranny, and he was delightful, and I would say optimistic. Completely charming. So, what’s your excuse, Goldy? … You can write about dark things and still be a great human being.
Goldy:
I have no excuse. Look, I’m not a pessimist, Paul. I’m a realist.
Paul Constant:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Goldy:
I know my history, so there’s a lot of dark things that happened. Look, the past few centuries, there’s been progress. Not a straight line, but there’s overall been progress, and I think there can be more progress. I think this is a lot of why we do what we do. I think we could have total collapse. I think that’s possible too, and I think if we allow inequality to continue, and to continue to grow, that’s where we’re headed. I think that’s a theme in a lot of the books that I’ve recommended. You can see that throughout, but all those books are being written as a warning and instruction on how to make the world better, and that is to make things more equal, more just, more inclusive, more cooperative, more collaborative.
Again, as Matthew Stewart observes in the 9.9%, the rich have this misunderstanding of where their wealth comes from. It comes from human cooperation. When we stop cooperating with each other, all that wealth disappears.
Paul Constant:
Wow. You really landed that plane. You went to a dark place, and you took us out. You really have changed, Goldy, in a good way. This is nice. This is nice. It’s a kinder, gentler David Goldstein. I appreciate it.
Goldy:
It’s just what comes with age. I’m old now. It’s just at some point it’s just too much. It requires too much energy to be dark all the time.
Paul Constant:
Mm-hmm.
Goldy:
Well, like you, Paul, like me, our listeners are book nerds, and they’re always asking for recommendations, so I hope you all enjoyed what Paul and I had to offer, and you’ll let us know what you think of these books. Also, by the way, if you have book recommendations for us, we’d love to hear from you at the usual contacts.
Paul Constant:
Absolutely.
Goldy:
You can look for it in the show notes, and in the show notes you will find a list of all of the books we recommended today. Again, you can buy them, order them from your favorite independent bookstore. You can get them from your local library. You can buy them from your online oligarch. Which ever way you choose.
Paul Constant:
You know, I think that Goldy and I have given you plenty to stock your nightstand for the rest of the summer. Please do keep in mind, this fall, that Corporate Bullsh*t: Exposing the Lies and Half-Truths That Protect Profit, Power, and Wealth in America is coming out from by Nick Hanauer, Joan Walsh, Donald Cohen. It is available for preorder anywhere you get your books, and those preorders do help get the word out about books, so we’d appreciate your preorder. Yeah. Thank you so much, Goldy. This was a lot of fun.
Goldy:
Yeah, and maybe we’ll do it again next summer.
Paul Constant:
Maybe so.
Speaker 3:
Pitchfork Economics is produced by Civic Ventures. If you like the show, make sure to subscribe, rate, and review us wherever your get your podcasts. Find us on Twitter and Facebook at Civic Action and Nick Hanauer. Follow our writing on Medium at Civic Skunk Works, and peek behind the podcast scenes on Instagram at Pitchfork Economics. As always, from our team at Civic Ventures, thanks for listening. See you next week.